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1 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:20:13.03 ID:MhRSPb6dP

Shinsengumi attacked in a group with shot sword.

Jigen style→ attack earlier than opponent

These are complete version of Japanese sword, right?



Shinsengumi`s Wiki

Jigen Style`s wiki







3 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:21:58.04 ID:P0OV3Gmp0


They are just tactics.






9 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:25:21.69 ID:MhRSPb6dP

>>3
They are sword style.
Ryoma Sakamoto and Kogoro Katsura were master of popular sword style but all they could do to Shinsengumi was only running away.



Ryoma Sakamoto`s wiki


Kogoro Katsura`s wiki

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10 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:27:30.24 ID:iTixz+fm0


Now the most elaborate is modern Kendo.








37 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 06:28:30.97 ID:qIECzCL70

>>10
Are you kidding?
Kendo is only sport.









17 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:32:47.72 ID:MhRSPb6dP

>>10
I disagree.
Do you think that champion of modern Kendo would be win Samurai in Bakumatsu era?

Izo Okada who was known as “Killer” said

“No matter hard you practice Kendo, experience of killing one person compares with practicing for hundred years.”





Bakumatsu`s wiki

Izo Okada`s wiki









84 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 09:41:26.94 ID:Lo9i4UaT0


Now Kendo is point-match-sports.
Even attack that can`t get point, opponent`s finger will be cut.







77 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 08:38:59.04 ID:CVJxDLik

Some people say Kendo is weak because it became sport.
According to person who experienced Kendo and ancient Japanese sword style, if 2 sword men fight each other, one practice Kendo and the other practice Japanese ancient sword style, Kendo will win.
Though sword style`s technique is amazing.
Well I think there is no complete version for Ken(sword).







79 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 08:57:52.17 ID:qIECzCL70

>>77
i see, people can`t use real sword for practice.







27 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:52:37.86 ID:MhRSPb6dP


For example, followings are tactics of Shinsengumi

・Use short Katana(sword) to avoid hurting each other by mistake.

・Attack is pass to avoid hurting each other and damaging for weapon.

After all, it`s complete version of sword.






30 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 06:08:43.83 ID:LUvkuXST0

Modern Kendo`s degree of perfection is higher, I think.
Because there are environment and opportunity to compete with many people…..
But there was same environment in Edo era.






39 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 06:33:51.08 ID:qIECzCL70


Bamboo sword and real sword are different.
In the first place, people don`t practice to “cut”, but only “hit” specific part of body.
Of course, it`s enough to kill human. But it`s possible even for amateur.







14 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:30:04.28 ID:+LOKsedE0

You talk about circumstance to fight in group?







19 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 05:34:55.62 ID:MhRSPb6dP

>>14
So in Kyoto and Edo(Tokyo) in Bakumatsu, Samurais were obligated to act in group.







34 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 06:25:08.24 ID:o6h8YYIo0

As a result to testing by master of Kendo, he could win 7 people at the same time.
I suppose masters in Bakumatsu were accustomed to killing each other could win more people.









41 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 06:36:45.83 ID:AXh49b560

Avoiding skull and cutting from neck was common in past.
But there isn`t such attack in Kendo.
I think it`s because of structure of protector.
So Kendo is technique for match.







48 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 06:40:51.86 ID:MhRSPb6dP

>>41
Such attack is impossible.
Katana would be broken only one attack because human bone is firm.
So Shinsengumi used pass.







57 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 06:58:31.72 ID:jLtnu5Kt0

>>48
You don`t seem to understand.
The technique that cut not neck from side but front part of chest along clavicle.
Hurt enemy and put an end to his life with pass.









64 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 07:15:26.96 ID:LUvkuXST0


Shinsengumi had killed in a groupe for 1 person. So they used pass because it`s easy to approach and leave.
And I suppose sword men who use only pass were a few so everyone hadn`t practiced precaution.
Also in kendo, people can deal with even pass, but it`s difficult to deal with for the first time. And they had to improve many members, so might choose pass easy way to kill.








144 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 11:12:23.95 ID:MhRSPb6dP
Ikedaya Incident
4 members of Shinsengumi VS 20 men in the group revered the Emperor

9 people died, 4 people were arrested, 7 people run away.
Among killed 9 people, Isami Kondo killed 5.

It`s proof that Shinsengumi`s pass was completed version.



Ikedaya Incident`s wiki



Isami Kondo`s wiki








136 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 11:02:34.13 ID:5gK24Uxx0


One to one battle was rare even in Kamakura era.
Group battle was usual.

And reason that Shinsengumi use short Katana is that long weapon was disadvantageous in city of Kyoto. At Boshin war, they used long sword.








73 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 08:18:56.41 ID:zWX8FYyG0

Swinging long katana is risky. If you miss, it means you give chance foe enemy to attack. Easily to break weapon. Danger that hurt each other by mistake.

And shinsengumi`s battle battlefield was narrow street and close building like Ikedaya.
Even I would choose short Katana that is easy to use.







87 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 09:47:20.67 ID:aDvRIWvIO

If being attacked by pass, you have no way.








92 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 09:51:59.91 ID:MhRSPb6dP

>>87
Yeah, completed version of attacking with sword is this. Surround in a group and pass in a group.
But this is only change from spear that had been used in Sengoku era to sword.








96 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 09:56:12.75 ID:Lo9i4UaT0

>>92

Spear in Sengoku seem to have used like hitting like blunt instrument.







124 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 10:40:28.36 ID:ohwFObqE0

Why didn`t samurai use shield?









125 anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 10:49:12.64 ID:nDvxjudH0

>>124
Because spear and Katana is too strong so shield need to be too tick and too heavy.
But if person had shield that era, he would have been abused chicken.







126 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 10:49:13.32 ID:IwoDR0ab0

>>124
Because samurais `s main weapon was arrow so they couldn`t shield.







143 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 11:11:25.44 ID:FaES0G9FO

Shinsengumi specialize indoor-battle like SWAT. Though long sword had been current at the time.








153 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 11:21:38.46 ID:IwoDR0ab0

>>143
Katana had already been used only when close combat.
In Boshin war, Katana was active to attack from close place.
Almost were annihilated before it by canon.







171 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 11:42:23.95 ID:LiDyniWu0

I`ve heard Jigen style is consisted in that behaving politely not to pull Katana out and when being attacked by opponent, pulling Katana out unconsciously and saving one`s self.








179 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 11:49:34.41 ID:FaES0G9FO

>>171
So Jigen style samurai`s sword and sheath were tied by wire not to pull easily.
But in Bakumatsu, everyone had interpreted that freely.
People had avoided only to pull out. So they had hit enemy with sheath.
So theirswords were very firm and made of iron.






181 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 11:52:55.73 ID:CVJxDLikO

>>179
When I heard it for first time, I couldn`t stand but laugh






190 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 12:16:19.55 ID:LiDyniWu0

>>179
Their secret is that the wire between sheath and Katana was cut unconsciously and he noticed that enemy is lying.
I`ve heard that in their headquarter.






192 Anonymous：2012/11/08(Thu) 12:28:15.41 ID:FaES0G9FO

>>190
I think it`s only getting angry while forgetting himself.

1. 2012/11/11(日) 05:07:19|
2. Samurai
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I had kept seeing samurai in japan before i knew that their is no samurai in japan no longer when i was 10.

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2. 2012/11/13(火) 09:24:42 |
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